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April 26, 2005

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Karen

There is an alternative to atonement theory that fell out of favor in the West but is still very much alive in Eastern Christian theology: Gregory of Nyssa's "fish hook" idea. The Father uses Jesus as bait to defeat the devil. It's a theological explanation (grounded in patristic theology) that has been increasingly attractive to me because it places the cause of violence against Christ squarely on Satan's shoulders, not God's.

Gustav Aulen devotes a chapter to it in his book "Christus Victor" and explains it far better than I can.

*Christopher

Karen,

Luther used this model as well.

Grant

David:

Thanks for the post. This is interesting. I find some things in it that need comment, however.

First, the 4 theories on how Jesus atones for everyone else’s sin:

1.) This seems like a nice idea. But if Jesus restores us to a pre-fall state through incarnation, doesn’t he then largely largely eliminate the need for all the grace and other atonement-like things he’s supposed to provide?
2.) This one is just weird. It posits that God’s honor is so much more significant that ours that we couldn’t ever really properly atone for our sins on our own. First, this would appear to contradict all the atonement that is provided for in Scripture before the incarnation. But even if that weren’t the case, this idea runs into some real logical problems. We’re to assume God’s honor is greater than ours. I can accept that. But then we’re to assume that God would do something that we would only expect those of lesser personal honor to do: pay to himself the debt that he is due. It’s like some who makes a loan with cash from his 1st bank account and then pays the loan back to himself with money from his 2nd bank account. That’s just flat forgiveness of debt; it doesn’t actually repay (atone for) any debt. Also, given that humans are unlikely to treat debts in such a manner this seems to run contrary to the idea that God has greater honor and thus needs a more significant sacrifice.
3.) This seems to say that we should all seek to die as some sort of martyr. First of all, I struggle to see how that is a good thing. Second, this can’t be God’s intention because it is necessarily exclusionary and contrary to the idea of evangelism. If the evangelists are successful, the ability to die as a martyr is eliminated. Even if they were not successful, when the last person (who hasn’t yet dies as a martyr) is left, he/she wouldn’t be able to die as a martyr and thus wouldn’t be able to die in a manner that is pleasing to God. I find it exceedingly difficult to believe that God would set as a goal for us something that could not be accomplished by all.
4.) This one stands out as the most recent historically. We’re obviously not able to live free of the evil influences so either this explanation is just wrong, or Jesus did an awful job fulfilling his role on Earth. – Apparently he wrote a book on it thought so I’ll have to read that.

You mentioned there are other explanations. Are there any good ones? These all seem pretty poor. Maybe the Eastern response is the best. Just accept it as a mystery and then deal with it. Of course, if you do that you must deal with the fact that you’re believing God planned for some form of human sacrifice as the atonement for the sins of others. Additionally, the human sacrifice is supposed to have been a perfect, sinless sacrifice. That sounds awfully lot like pagan cultures sacrificing their children. It doesn’t, however, sound a whole lot like God.

About sin.
Where does you definition of sin come from? I don’t think I agree with it. But I can’t say it’s incorrect, so I’d like to read more about the source of that thinking. In the example you give we are essentially bound to all sin everyone at all times and there is no escaping it. That makes your definition of sin sound like an explanation that fabricates a need for Jesus. Furthermore, if, as you state, we are born into a state of sin and this sin is inescapable regardless of our own actions as your example seems to indicate then for what precisely are we to ask forgiveness when we acknowledge our sinfulness which we were born into an cannot escape? Being born? It seems based on what you’ve written here that that really is our only sin. Forgive me Father for I was born? This doesn’t make sense. What am I missing? I understand sin to mean missing the mark. Indeed, the Hebrew word for “sin” applies equally to a blind archer. Of course, missing the mark implies personal responsibility for sins much more than it does corporate or cooperative sin.

Side note: The confession above seems to acknowledge that the 4th explanation of how Jesus atones for the sins of all is bunk. Obviously, only one can be right, either Jesus freed us from evil or we’re under it enslaves us. OK, this is no longer a side note: This whole concept of being “enslaved” by evil is antithetical to free will. We are not enslaved to evil, nor to goodness. We have the free will to choose both good and evil. We are, however, called by God to choose good even when evil is more natural. Indeed, the ability to make that choice is what makes us human.

Thanks for keeping up this site. I think it’s great. (The “Jesus loves me this I know” song gives me the creeps, by the way. Thanks :-)

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